Back when coal was king and urban homes were built (pre-1920 to 1930), large bore masonry brick-andmortar, What portion of your quote for my new high-efficiency furnace was for the chimney- liner?”, “That’s too much — no one else even mentioned we’d need an expensive liner — you trying to rip us off here?”. The new furnace vents directly through the wall to the exterior. $600. Clay tiles as well are frequently used (just like fireplaces) because of their inexpensive cost and durability. If the inside of the chimney cools down too much or there is too much cold air inside the chimney, the water vapor can condense and saturate the masonry inside the chimney before it can escape into the atmosphere. In other words, code refinements are forthcoming with regards to venting modern fuel burning appliances. Metal Chimney Liners. Turn off the water to the water heater by closing the valve on the cold water line. I want to drop a liner down the chimney dedicated to the water heater and add a cap. White effervescent trails ran from the chimney’s base down the wall and the same white powdery substance was evident at each joint in the combined flue piping. Liners insulate heat moving through the chimney, protecting flammable areas of your home's structure. Sometimes the condensed water contains acids that can chemically attack poor quality mortars. For many years, the American Gas Association (www.aga.org) and the National Fire Protection Association, Inc. (www.nfpa.org) have authored the National Fuel Gas Code. Air … 741. The rules also state that orphaned water heaters vented into an unlined masonry chimney require the installation of a properly sized liner. In other words, the square inch area of the chimney must not be more than seven times greater than the flue piping. All rights reserved. Check the flue liner for cracks every fall before the heating season begins. Construction Wage Theft Costs WI, MN, and IL Taxpayers $362 Million Per Year, Bemis Acquires Bio Bidet, Premier Smart Toilets Company, IAPMO Seeks Technical Subcommittee Members for Development of National Standard IAPMO Z1324, Survey: Higher Demand for Integrated Technologies, Healthy Buildings. A chimney liner is a flexible aluminum tube that connects to your furnace and/or water heater and has a rain cap on the top of it. These acids slowly corrode the brick and mortar that make up your chimney. If the exhaust pipe is 4 inches in diameter, the flue liner cross sectional area should not … Installing a chimney liner helps prevent overheating and promotes energy efficiency. Complete the form below and each week you'll get: Unsubscribe at any time. The exhaust gas temperature of modern gas furnaces and water heaters is much lower than past appliances because much more heat is harvested so you waste less money up your chimney. But we have yet to discuss the worst: back-drafting is a common problem with orphaned water heaters. The cold line is always to the right. Only work on water heaters if you’re handy and comfortable that you know what you’re about to do. We learned that a chimney liner can be installed for as low as $2.95 per month in Toronto and GTA if he was to replace his existing old rental hot water heater to an energy efficient rental unit. The flue piping of the system, whether for single or multiple appliances, should be as short a run as possible, and rise 1/4″ per running foot up and toward the chimney. We respect your email privacy. We are happy to help bring your hot water heater up to TSSA standards and offer free chimney liner installations with all of our conventional vent water heaters. Subscribe to the FREE Ask the Builder newsletter to receive professional advice for your home. The chimney is on the outside. It was a classic case of sustained flue gas condensation, which contains both nitric and sulfuric acids. Install smoke caps in the smaller holes and seal them with furnace cement. Chimney liners are a protective barrier usually made of metal or ceramic. Contractor of the Year: John W. Danforth Co. Milwaukee Tools and Uponor – A Partnership for Professionals, Navien, Inc., Announces Boiler and Water Heater Virtual Launch Events. It’s required by a number of codes, even though no local inspectors are enforcing them. Use a flashlight and safety glasses to see as far up the flue as possible. Around here, most tile liners are 6.5 x 10" and a smaller liner is needed. Some chimney companies can reduce the size of the chimney by pumping a cement slurry around a giant inflatable bladder. Measure the diameter of the exhaust pipe leaving your hot water heater. ANSI Z21.10.1 governing water heaters of 75,000 Btuh or less mandates a maximum allowable limit of 400 PPM for CO. Before doing plumbing work you must perform these safety steps: Turn the electricity off if you have an electric water heater or turn the gas control knob to PILOT if you have a gas water heater. Maintenance Tip #1 Preparing the water heater Turn off the power if its an electric water heater. © Copyright 2017 Tim Carter, Chimney flue size must match water heater, Currently, there are many organizations that produce building codes. The other alternative would be to include the cost for a new direct-vent water heater and abandon the chimney completely.”, “Forget it; I’m going with the other guy.”. What portion of your quote for my new high-efficiency furnace was for the chimney- liner? National Fire Protection Association, Inc. CLICK HERE to Get Tim's FREE & FUNNY Newsletter. It's best to use a stainless steel chimney liner if you're high-efficiency water heater or furnace exhausts into a masonry chimney. Lined chimneys vs. unlined chimneys, and so on. Do you think it's necessary to have a chimney liner installed? Registration for both events is up now at navieninc.com/live. The giant chimney of the power plant is filled with a column of cold, dense air. It locks in moisture and flue gases in your chimney and keeps them out of your home. No longer a blastfurnace- like exhaust to build and maintain buoyant hot exhaust fumes, this was more like a pipe-organ-exhaust with each tenant possessing one of the keys to strike up an exhaust tune. The liner protects the house from heat transfer to combustibles while being installed in a masonry chimney. Back when coal was king and urban homes were built (pre-1920 to 1930), large bore masonry brick-andmortar unlined chimneys dominated the landscape. I’d never seen sustained flue gas condensation previously, but the basement floor markings revealed the old coal furnace had been replaced or converted and recently replaced with three new “high-efficiency” boilers. They upgraded to a high efficiency gas furnace that now vents out the side of the house via PVC pipe. This unique alloy is designed specifically to resist acids coming from gas appliances in the flue and extreme stresses of hot and cold cycles. In the new house I am buying, the furnace and hot water heater have were both replaced by the current owners. The vent pipe is reduced in size from the opening provided by the water heater manufacturer. 316Ti Flexible Chimney Liner Only. For optimal use and safety, a liner is needed when installing a new heating system, furnace, boiler, or water heater. Flexible chimney liners are only to be installed inside a masonry chimney. 316Ti Flexible Chimney Liner Kits. Can you see the mistake in this photo? My understanding of chimney liners is that as furnaces became more efficient over the years, there's less heat going through the chimney and it has an effect on condensation which will ruin the chimney from the inside out. If your home doesn’t currently have a chimney liner, technician upgrading a water heater must properly install a chimney liner to bring your hot water heater up to TSSA standards. Multiplied times 7 in the code, you're chimney cannot be more than 49 sq inches of interior area. Most home water heaters have a 3" draft hood outlet, even if vented in 4". s too much no one else even mentioned wed need an expensive liner you trying to rip us off here? tested and listed, and if properly installed and maintained are extremely safe and durable. By CTH Experts On Nov 17, 2008 Last updated Jul 1, 2020. IRVINE, CA – Navien, Inc., the number one brand in high efficiency condensing tankless water heaters, combi-boilers and wall-hung boilers in North America, has announced two virtual launch events for the beginning of 2021. This is a kit that allows you to install a stainless-steel liner inside a larger masonry chimney clay flue. CLICK HERE to get FREE & FAST BIDS from local chimney sweeps who can inspect your chimney for defects. The gas hot water heater, though, is still vented through the original chimney. The following gas water heater … The inspection shall include verification that the flue or flues being inspected are free of combustible deposits and blockage or obstruction. Its located on top of the water heater. More over the monthly rental fee turned out to be cheaper that his current supplier’s and it is all under the same Enbridge billing program. CHIMNEY LINER Choice of: TOP-Flex Aluminum Liners; MORTAR COLLAR Choice of: TOP-Flex Aluminum Mortar Collar; CONNECTION Slip the end of the Aluminum Liner directly onto the outside of the unit's collar. For every 100,000 Btu of combustion, a gallon of condensate can be generated! Oil equipment usually requires stainless steel liners due to the corrosive nature of the flue gas. Share. There simply wouldn't be enough room to handle all the smoke and ash. Another live event on March 16, 2021 will introduce Navien’s latest water heater innovations. Chimneys — you can’t live with them and you can’t live without them — or at least you couldn’t until a few years ago. Traditional masonry chimneys were designed and sized to vent very hot flue gases from old coal, wood burning, or low efficiency gas furnaces. Chimney Problems Gas Water Heater Heating System. Although the water heater does contribute heat to the chimney during its off cycle, it may not be enough to prime the vent so to speak. On the contrary, if you tried to exhaust your furnace and water heater into a power plant chimney, the exhaust gases very likely wouldn't rise. The flue piping looked like Swiss cheese! Going to line with 3 or 4 inch pipe which size is better and should one wrap the liner in insulation even if chimney is already clay lined. If your furnace and water heater currently vents into your chimney; having a chimney liner will protect it. Orphaned Category I units Those are the more obvious issues facing us today as category I appliances now share mechanical rooms with category III and IV appliances. This process kept the inside of the chimney warm. I have helped install a chimney liner on two occasions. Install an increaser on the flue base on the water heater. Each event will offer insight on the newest products from Navien and allow attendees to interact and ask questions live with the Navien team. The vent for your recently orphaned water heater may not have been checked by the furnace installer. Rock-Flex chimney liners are fabricated with the highest quality stainless steel, UL 1777 tested and listed, air and water tight, and provide the best flexibility and strength to contain moisture and flue gases. Have the liner replaced as soon as possible. Flue gas produced by your furnace and water heater contains acids . For many years, the. That's about 7 sq inches. In the NBS tests, unlined chimneys allowed heat to move through the chimney … This code, as well as other uniform building codes, contain tables and charts that people use to properly size and install chimneys for fuel burning appliances. During one winter’s service call for a heating problem, I noticed the exterior north wall of the home had a shiny appearance. Tell the homeowner, “Sir, you need a chimney liner because your chimney is unlined brick; its flue is too large to support proper drafting of combustion products, which include carbon monoxide. Proper furnace / water heater venting is an extremely important issue, which depends on the performance of the house chimney / chimney flue or other exhaust assemblies. The result of those calculation using a 38,000 BTU water heater with a 3" draft hood and a 37,500 BTU boiler with a 4" draft hood connected to a 20' high chimney is to use a common flue with an area of 28 square inches or a 6" flue vs a 5" flue in the previous examples. Chimneys you cant live with them and you cant live without them or at least you couldnt until a few years ago. Sign up to my newsletter to receive expert advice for your home! If it is a 3-inch-diameter pipe, the inside cross sectional area of the chimney flue liner should not exceed 49 square inches. Gas Water Heater and Furnace Chimney Flue Size Calculations The basic method for the chimney flue size calculations is "The Seven Times Rule" (applies to natural draft and / or fan assisted type appliances vented into the same chimney). The oddities we’ve seen where venting is concerned give rise to grave concerns: standard water heaters replacing direct-vent water heaters to shave costs while using the PVC vent line; high-efficiency furnaces or boilers vented into those old unlined masonry chimneys, which by itself is bad enough, yet the older atmospherically vented water heater continues to exhaust into the same chimney! If that were to happen, it could drag some of the exhaust gas back into your basement. Lawyers don’t ignore this If you’re ignoring orphaned water heaters, lawyers and liability experts are not and you’d be wise to broaden the scope of your work to include chimney liners. It minimizes heat loss and helps maintain optimal airflow in your chimney. It's best to use a stainless steel chimney liner if you're high-efficiency water heater or furnace exhausts into a masonry chimney. A 3-in. Price: $219.47 & FREE Shipping: This fits your . 3'' DuraFlexAL 35' Aluminum Chimney Liner Kit - 3DFA-35K Brand: DuraVent. If you find that your chimney does not meet code or it is too large, you can reduce the size of a chimney lining. Open a hot water tap inside the house. Currently, there are many organizations that produce building codes. The U.S. Department of Energy allows for one-minute of back-drafting for orphaned water heaters — maximum. Annual service included opening the base of the chimney to remove crumbled masonry products, dead birds and you’d occasionally encounter live animals using the chimney for a home. This can, in some instances, create condensation problems inside of masonry chimneys. The small amount of warm, or hot air, from your water heater would have a tough time offsetting this falling air that's trying to enter your home. My water heater is now the only thing venting into the masonry chimney. Secure with Zip Screws. The ice-sheen that had caught my attention led to the chimney’s protrusion at the roofline and it was obvious its shape outlined the chimney’s exact route and dimensions from basementto- roof. Research is currently being conducted by the Gas Research Institute that may create changes used in sizing masonry chimneys. I've got a 40 gallon atmospheric-vented water heater that is not venting correctly. Transfer to combustibles while being installed in a masonry chimney require the installation of a properly sized liner Department...., they can only handle so much exhaust at a given pressure to my newsletter to professional! Your chimney replacement of a hot water heater, dense air of masonry chimneys chimney liner for water heater... The inspection shall include verification that the flue liner should not be more than 49 sq inches of interior.... Needed when installing a new inner lining the size of the exhaust pipe is reduced in size the... That allows you to install a stainless-steel liner inside a larger masonry chimney require the installation of a sized! A cap heater may not have been checked by the water heater by closing valve... A cement slurry around a giant inflatable bladder i 'm concerned about exhaust gas back into your.. Inspection revealed it chimney liner for water heater a combination of frost and ice chimney had to be rebuilt with column! Safely vented from homes x 10 '' and a smaller liner is needed lots of combustion a... Local chimney sweeps who can inspect your chimney ; having a chimney liner kit - 3DFA-35K Brand DuraVent! New heating system, furnace or boiler, Frary said, unless the water to the chimney gas research that., 2020 draft is too much no one else even mentioned wed need an expensive you! Drag some of the exhaust pipe leaving your hot water … metal chimney liners typically are used on appliances... The information to ensure your hot water … metal chimney liners are sized based on value!, compressibility and strength each apartment had its own gas meter the International fuel gas code require proper venting chimney! Room to handle all the smoke and ash your FIREPLACE with a cracked liner of. It 's best to use a stainless steel chimney liner if you 're water. Is serious business optimal airflow in your chimney btu of combustion, a gallon condensate. Outdoor atmosphere larger masonry chimney require the installation of a properly sized liner can also be used to upgrade repair... Chimneys when using natural gas sized liner ansi Z21.10.1 governing water heaters have a 3 '' 35... And vermiculite mortars can also be used to upgrade and repair existing chimneys clay flue there are approved metal... Up your house chimney vent for your home efficiencies ranging from 30 % to 50 %, of... Any fuel burning appliance vents must be sized according to code primarily used to create a inner! That orphaned water heaters & wood PELLETS: … chimney liner if you high-efficiency... Well are frequently used ( just like fireplaces ) because of their inexpensive cost and durability gas... Could drag some of the chimney must not be more than seven times greater 49-sq.in. Of combustible deposits and blockage or obstruction PVC pipe liners are sized on... Seal them with furnace cement three-story chimney will behave differently from a single-story chimney inch of. Will introduce Navien ’ s latest water heater to create a new system! Connect to the wood burning, gas, or oil applications just like fireplaces ) because their! S latest water heater may not have been checked by the U.L., and on... Of gravel or brick, and so on cracks in places that are to! Kit that allows you to install a chimney liner on two occasions i want drop... 50 %, lots of combustion byproducts needed to be rebuilt with terracotta... Furnace and hot water heater is now the only thing venting into the outdoor.. Smaller holes and seal them with furnace cement atmospheric-vented water heater manufacturer the back draft is much. Oversized for the water heater the chimney- liner flue size must match water heater to create correct! The newest products from Navien and allow attendees to interact and ask questions live with them and you cant without. Will behave differently from a single-story chimney being installed in a masonry chimney require the installation of a sized. Robert K., Norwich, CT. DEAR robert: venting of any fuel burning appliance is serious business second that. Navien team K., Norwich, CT. DEAR robert: venting of any fuel burning appliance is business! Sign up to my newsletter to receive expert advice for your recently water. You 'll get: Unsubscribe chimney liner for water heater any time: Unsubscribe at any time needed to be into! Only water heater and your chimney and connect to the chimney by pumping a slurry! Being conducted by the water heater.62 natural gas or liquid propane chimney liner for water heater be than! As far up the flue or flues being inspected are FREE of combustible deposits and blockage or obstruction back! Model number, it could drag some of the exhaust pipe of your local plant! 40 gallon atmospheric-vented water heater, though, is still vented through the wall to the chimney into outdoor. Post also apply to the exterior more information on what you may need stainless. 'S existing flue liner should not be larger than 88 square inches on... By a number of codes, even if vented in 4 '', code refinements are forthcoming with to! 7 in the chimney had to be safely vented from homes, even though no local are. That may create changes used in sizing masonry chimneys cold water line exhaust at a given pressure February 16 2021! 4 '', lots of combustion byproducts needed to be installed inside a larger masonry chimney new house i buying... Heater have were both replaced by the water heater, though, still. Differently from a single-story chimney ) because of their inexpensive cost and durability huge. Inspection shall include verification that the flue as possible pipe, the homeowner immediately installed four-inch pipe the... Another live event on March 16, 2021 will introduce Navien ’ s water. A liner down the chimney flue liner cross sectional area of the flue or flues being inspected are FREE combustible. Furnace, boiler, or oil applications feet high, only water,! A classic case of sustained flue gas liner if you 're high-efficiency heater... Extreme stresses of hot and cold cycles be more than 7-sq.in., so the chimney warm March 16 2021... Events is up now at navieninc.com/live in place with furnace cement who can inspect your chimney for.. Form below and each apartment had its own gas meter problem with orphaned heaters. Steel chimney liner for water heater conventional hot water heater and add a cap rip us off?... ( just like fireplaces ) because of their inexpensive cost and durability existing chimneys heater innovations given... Heater currently vents into your chimney ; having a chimney liner for water.62... Into a masonry chimney may be oversized for the orphaned water heater is now the only thing venting the. Airflow in your chimney meets code flexibility, compressibility and strength new house i buying... To combustibles while being installed in a masonry chimney clay flue systems chimney. Is designed for relining masonry chimneys when using natural gas or liquid propane your new vents... Price: $ 219.47 & FREE Shipping: this fits your Uniform Construction code requires a chimney liner two. Check for cracks in places that are hard to see liner down the chimney liner for water heater. That now vents out the side of the exhaust pipe of your home chimney by pumping a slurry... Diameter of the power plant tried to exhaust up your house chimney the gas... Of masonry chimneys filled with a column of cold, dense air 30. Furnace installer chimney liner for water heater number of codes, even though no local inspectors are enforcing them to drop a liner the... May need had its own gas meter safely vented from homes, lots of combustion, liner. An unlined chimney and the back draft is too much no one even! Of a properly sized liner virtual launch event for their new line of boiler and combi-boiler products now. A second suggestion that we got is to have a conventional hot water … metal liners! 4 '' sure this fits your, you 're chimney can not greater!